Trump Clashes with ABC Anchor Over DOGE, Challenges 'Legal Note': ‘How Do You Know That?’
For many supporters of Donald Trump, his Tuesday night appearance on ABC likely felt like a long-awaited moment to settle scores with a network that’s often been hostile toward him.
(Calling ABC’s stance on Trump “critical” would be putting it mildly.)
On the flip side, Trump’s critics probably viewed the high-profile interview as the perfect chance to finally corner him on controversial issues.
But in a twist that likely left both camps feeling a little underwhelmed, a particular exchange from the broadcast — now making waves online — turned out to be the defining moment of the night.
During the sit-down, Trump addressed a wide range of subjects, including the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), a project currently helmed by Elon Musk.
Here’s that segment:
“We also found tremendous waste, fraud, and abuse, as you know,” Trump said, touting what he claimed were DOGE's achievements. “We found a lot of fraud. There was a lot of fraud.
“Fraudulent things were taking place, and we ended that, and those [perpetrators] are going to be suffering.”
At that point, ABC’s Terry Moran jumped in with what seemed like an attempt to catch Trump off guard.
“Just, a legal note, fraud is a crime,” Moran interjected. “There have been no referrals to the Justice Department on any of this.”
“Well, you don’t know that, do you?” Trump shot back. “How do you know that?”
What followed was an uncomfortably silent pause.
“Have there been referrals? Are there referrals?” Moran followed up.
“How would you know that, that there were no referrals?” Trump pressed again. “There were referrals.”
“There’s been no investigation from the Justice Department …” Moran began, only for Trump to interrupt once more.
“How do you know that?” Trump challenged.
“I’m asking you, sir,” Moran replied.
“No, you’re not asking me,” Trump said. “You made a statement. You’re not asking anything.”
“Now, I’m asking you.”
Trump went on to insist that referrals for criminal fraud had, in fact, been made to the DOJ. After that, the conversation shifted back to DOGE’s broader efforts — which Moran, unsurprisingly, presented in a critical light.
For Trump supporters, the absence of a blockbuster claim — like a direct criminal referral against someone such as Nancy Pelosi — may have been a letdown. Instead, they were left with a more generalized assertion.
As of now, there’s no public documentation confirming that fraud referrals related to DOGE have been submitted to the DOJ. Whether Trump fabricated this claim in the moment to put ABC on the defensive remains uncertain — but anyone familiar with his style wouldn’t dismiss the possibility.
Still, Trump did stand firm in defending the work done through DOGE, and it’s possible confidentiality is preventing him from sharing more details.
As for ABC, this awkward exchange adds to a growing list of moments that have damaged the network’s credibility with independent and conservative viewers.
Even if Moran was technically correct, the way he approached the topic felt more like a trap than an earnest inquiry. The attempt to corner a sitting president on national television was so blatant it might’ve made even Ray Charles wince.
Had this been ABC’s first tense interaction with Trump, it might’ve been written off as a one-time stumble by a network trying to stay relevant.
(Though that label might still apply.)
But this certainly wasn’t their first run-in. In fact, two of ABC’s more prominent personalities were sidelined for this interview due to their past conflicts with Trump.
Now Moran appears eager to join that same group by lobbing pointed questions about DOGE?
It comes across as desperate, attention-seeking behavior from the ABC anchor — and even the few remaining loyalists to the network would be hard-pressed to say otherwise.